A Q&A Session with Dr. Samantha Tillapaugh aka The Debtist

Q: Thank you for agreeing to answer some questions on your journey to financial independence. Please, tell us a bit about yourself.

A: At my core, I am an extremely multi-faceted person – the Jill of many trades with no intention to master any one of them. Since I was a child, I have had a short attention span, and I think that is why my mom was so adamant on teaching me how to focus. I thank her, because now I am very efficient with my output, but I still haven’t lost my curiosity.

I am the truest definition of a Gemini, intermingled with a Type I Personality on the Enneagram scale, and an INFJ. My biggest goal in life is to constantly learn and experience something new, and my biggest fear is standing in the same place. I LOVE movement, as well as creative thinking, which explains why my favorite hobbies include motion and thinking on your feet. I guess that makes dentistry a good fit for me.

I am a part-time dentist who owes a ridiculous amount of student loans, hell-bent on not allowing finances to impede my wish to live life to the fullest, explore my interests, and retain full autonomy over my day-to-day life.

Professionally, I am also a blogger for my website, thedebtist.com and others’, a wholesale director for a bakery called Rye Goods, an occasional speaker on the topic of student debt, as well as a temp for other random events such as teaching lunch-and-learns for companies, or dog-sitting for traveling pet parents.

Privately, I am a real nerd. I am an avid reader, I depend heavily on my planner, and I still write analog. Writing helps me process my thoughts; organizing the house keeps me calm. I take piano lessons and boxing classes. I love to sleep, but hate to waste time, so I mitigate that with my love for coffee. I also like to travel, take photographs, and bake.

I practice slow-living and minimalism because I naturally gravitate towards a fast-pace and a maximalist life.

Q: What made you interested in dentistry?

A: It’s hard to say when the true point of inception occurs, but I have been saying I wanted to be a dentist since I was 8 or 9 years old. When I was younger, I thought it was destiny. I was born on the Philippine Islands and when we would vacation on beaches, I would play with fish teeth. My parent’s actually have a video of me, at 2 years old, holding a dead fish in my hand, and literally playing and inspecting its mouth. Gross, huh?

I also have a video of me floating in the ocean with a floaty in the shape of a Colgate toothpaste tube. I loved wearing fake Dracula teeth for Halloween in elementary school. And I always liked the dentist. As I got older and started considering which medical profession I would pursue, it was the lifestyle of a dentist that attracted me. It was not until college that I learned my great-grandfather on my mom’s side was a dentist, too.

My mom wanted to be a doctor, actually. She never had the ability to pursue that dream because student loans did not exist in the country I was born in. You either came from a rich enough family to pay for medical school on your own or not. In that respect, I understand the privilege I had of having student debt. Now that I am older, I think subconsciously, or maybe even consciously, my mom’s unfulfilled dream got translated and handed down to me, eventually becoming my own.

Q: You graduated with a hefty amount of student loan debt. If you don’t mind, please tell us how much. Was this from undergrad as well as dental school and residency?

A: I absolutely don’t mind sharing this at all! I graduated with a sum total of just over $575,000 in student debt. More than half a million dollars! This was mostly from dental school. In undergrad, I chose a university to which I could commute from home and I lived at home all four years. I also worked three jobs and graduated in three years. All of this was part of my plan to save as much money as possible. I had no help with paying for undergrad, so I still graduated with about $15,000 in student debt. I did not go to residency.

Q: What repayment plan did you choose and why?

A: Choosing the repayment plan for me has been quite the adventure. As aggressive as possible was our repayment choice, although we have switched between repayment plans and we also have plans to exit the loan forgiveness umbrella in the near future. Before I go into the minor details as to our repayment thus far, I will answer the question “Why?”.

Most people don’t know this, but when you do the math, aggressively paying down debt was the cheapest path. Actually, paying it in the standard 10-years was cheaper than waiting 25 years to forgive the loan by over $100,000! And you save 15 years! To me, that’s a no-brainer. The reason as to why it is cheaper is simple.

The government banks on your income growing over time. Since you pay a small percentage of your income to them, you will be paying more to your loan over time, as well. However, your income payment will unlikely exceed the interest that is being added to your debt. Under the federal loan forgiveness plans, the interest rates are high (mine is 6.8%). Which means that each month, my loan of $575,000 is accruing $3,258 in interest.

Assuming my program requires me to pay 10% of my income, for me to cover interest, I would need to be making about $391,000 per year. And mind you, that doesn’t even touch the Principle Amount. Therefore, unless you do make over $400k a year, your loan is growing for 20-25 years.

Now, where the government benefits is on the tax bomb at the very end, which shockingly, some people do not know about. In short, whenever the loan is forgiven, the debtor will be charged taxes that tax year as if they earned that much income.

To give a finite example of this, if I was on the IBR plan, my loan of $575,000 would have increased to about $1.4 Million. They would consider $1.4 Million to be income I earned that year. Which means my tax bomb would be about $420,000 (plus whatever my taxes are on what I ACTUALLY earned that year doing dentistry) – a sum I would have to pay that year. When you add this amount to the minimum payments I would have made throughout the course of the program, I would have paid about $750,000 in total. When we pulled the numbers, paying off the debt in 10 years would have only cost me $650,000.

Here’s the kicker. I knew we could do it in less than 10 years!

So now that I have answered why we chose to pay it down aggressively, let me go through our ever-changing repayment plan.

When I was just exiting dental school, I was visiting the financial aid office constantly. The one at school kept telling me that my wish to pay off student debt “did not make sense.” They said that between the house I would want to buy and the new car I would want to get and the vacations I wanted to take, I would not have the income to pay back the debt, even with my husband who was working at the time as a mechanical engineer! Which is funny because I never told them about a house, or car, or vacation.

I remember running through the numbers and not understanding why they couldn’t see that the income could cover the debt. I even had my husband (who I was engaged to at the time), come into the school with me to look at the Excel sheet the financial aid admin had created. She painted a picture that said it was impossible, and she recommended I sign up under the IBR repayment program. With a heavy sigh, we did.

But I just couldn’t sit with this notion that I was going to be in debt for what feels like FOREVER, and I wanted to get my finances in shape. I also did not believe the admin HAHA. I hired a financial planner who happened to be the husband of a fellow dental classmate. He helped me get rid of all my credit card debt and set up our finances in the few months between starting work and getting married at the end of 2016.

After we were married and all the credit cards were paid off, my financial planner started noticing that we were setting aside about $8k a month. Which is when he told us that paying back my loan is a possibility for us. In order to do a 10-year repayment plan, we would need to make payments of about $6,300 per month. We were worried about the risk refinancing into a 10- year program would entail, especially if one of us lost our jobs. In order to have the flexibility of decreasing our monthly payments should life throw lemons our way, I stayed in IBR and started paying back my debt aggressively. The plan was to get the loan to a smaller, more manageable number that would give us a lower interest rate when we refinance, as well as a more comfortable minimum monthly payment that we knew we could achieve should our income ever change.

It was not until I talked to Travis Hornsby from Student Loan Planner (who I BTW recommend to every grad who has student debt), that I learned I could optimize my plan by switching to REPAYE. This is because REPAYE subsidizes the interest and pays 50% of it for the first three years. So I switched to REPAYE a year into my loan repayment journey. By taking advantage of REPAYE’s interest discount, we technically achieved the interest rate we would get if we had refinanced, while retaining the flexibility. We hung onto the ability to stop making massive monthly payments in cases of emergency.

And boy were we glad we did! The pandemic came in March of 2020 and REPAYE’s 3 years was going to end for me on November 2020. My husband ended up losing his job for ten months during the pandemic and the pause on federal loan payments have been a real blessing!

However, we are still sticking to our real plan, which was to refinance at the end of 3 years. Since student loans are on pause currently and at 0% interest, I am waiting for whenever they resume to refinance. At that time, we will make a large lump sum payment, bringing our loan from the OG $575,000 to around $340,000. This will hopefully land us a better interest rate than if we refinanced in the beginning (since the total is much lower). Our target interest rate is less than 3%, which would be an improvement from the current 6.8%.

Q: What is your strategy for tackling your student loan debt (please break down).

A: We are doing all sorts of fun and creative things to pay it down. I look at the task as a game– kind of like Mike and I versus the world. We made a pact to live off of one income, because both our parents supported us in that way. The income we live off of is my husband’s, whose wish in life is to live comfortably without sacrificing what makes life worth living. His income is enough to maintain our lifestyle. Which leaves 100% of my earnings to go towards student loans – after maximizing a 401K first, of course. (I could be throwing this extra 19.5K into paying down student debt, but our motto is centered around not sacrificing the NOW for the LATER. (We are such millennials, am I right?)

We implement a number of other tactics in order to maximize what we can put towards loans. First, we budget to keep our spending on the minimum. We travel hack to be able to see the world, without spending post-tax dollars on flights, and hotels. We also house hack, which helped us save money to buy our property, as well as reduce the amount we spend on putting a roof over our heads. Between 2017 and now, we have reduced our housing expense by $1,000 – not an easy feat in Orange County, California.

I also try to have the hobbies I pursue make money for me. I find that so many people do things they like without trying to monetize it. A few things I like to do that I’ve turned into side hustles are write, bake, and be around animals and pets. I also like to teach and take photographs and have been paid for both before. I like coffee shops, which is why my new role as the wholesale director of a bakery works well for me. I get to meet all sorts of coffee shop owners and probe their brains on how to source the best cup of coffee! Plus I use my blog to sponsor my lifestyle. Companies that I promote send me products to try, and instead of buying things for myself, I reach out to the company and ask if I can trade a post for a product review. It’s a win-win situation, and I get high-quality items without spending hard-earned dollars!

We love the idea of passive income and remote work. This is because our dream is to travel the world. We are working on both. During the pandemic when Mike did not have a job in mechanical engineering, he completed a course on coding so that we could make remote a reality. Little did we know that the pandemic would change our lives! He returned to mechanical engineering at the beginning of this year, and just this week, he was offered the option of coming in as little as once a quarter (aka 4 total days a year)! Meanwhile, my work as the wholesale director, writer, and blogger is all remote. And the blog and the wholesale directing gives me passive income – which I define as income that I continually receive without me doing additional work. The blog is the best because content I’ve written in the past can still bring in revenue in the future through affiliate links.

Our strategy is not “work as hard as you can, as many hours as you can.” On the contrary, as a slow-living advocate, I am quite the opposite. I like working as few hours as I can while receiving the most output. Ways in which that can happen is to create continuous revenue from a product (like the blog), earn commission through a past sale (like the wholesale directing), or place your dollars in something that would grow in value (like our home). Even during the pandemic, we paused our loan payments but moved all our money to a high yield savings account. Since we planned to put our savings into the loans right when the relief ended, we wanted a short-term solution that would still have our dollars working for us. The HYSA gives a 0.7% return versus the typical 0.01% return with a bank. So on the side, it is earning us a few hundred dollars.

Q: With your current breakdown, how long would it take you to pay down your entire student debt load?

A: As described in the previous question, we went from IBR to REPAYE. We will soon refinance for a lower interest rate and hope to be in the low to mid $300,000’s when we do. After that, I hope to get rid of the debt within 3 years! EEEK!

The pandemic definitely slowed us down, but the student debt relief has greatly helped. We are on track to finish sometime between the 7 to 8 year mark.

Q: Does any part of your life suffer because of your aggressive debt repayment?

A: This question is why I embrace my work as TheDebtist. I want to show people that my choice does not hold me back from living my life. I mean, look at me! I work 2 days a week in dentistry. I get to call my own shots at the dental office, and control which days I work, as well as how many patients to book. I work remote for blogging and the bakery, choosing my own hours. I like the flexibility of that. My husband and I have traveled to 10 international countries, as well as all over the United States. I opened a bakery and a dog sitting business between now and when I graduated. I’ve experienced so many things, and since that’s my life goal, then No, I do not suffer.

I do find this question really painful to answer, because it is asked often and insinuates this common belief that paying back debt leads to deprivation. That’s why I care about sharing the story of my student debt repayment journey. That fear of deprivation and inability to live life was in me, too. I had no one to look up to and it was lonely, as well as scary, to take the leap.

The people around us feed off of this consumerist energy and paying back debt obviously means offsetting it with less consumption. So I choose to show people that a minimalist life in terms of material goods can also mean a maximalist life in terms of experiences. It’s just about being fueled by different things, that’s all.

Q: Do you have other debt and if so, what is your mindset towards those?

A: We do not! Except for our mortgage. My mindset on that is clear. I would rather pay for a home, earn equity and use it for house hacking and my business (my entire bakery operated in my kitchen!) than rent a home from someone else and contribute to their wealth instead.

Q: What is your approach to spending and your psychology about money?

A: I have been socially brainwashed to spend money, so it is natural for me and most people to spend. My natural instinct is to hold tight to money, but when I see other people around me buying things, I start to want things too. I work very hard to stick to a budget and stay a minimalist.

My psychology around money has changed significantly over the past four years. I used to have a scarcity mindset around money. I worked many hours to attain it because I thought hours worked equated to money earned. Now I have an abundance mindset around it, investing money into things that will give more output with less input. I am also trying to be more generous with money, having adapted to the idea that generosity is repaid tenfold.

I used to be scared of not having enough money but that’s what this journey gave me. Paying back student debt aggressively gave me the confidence to overcome my fear of money. Now I understand that I am in control of it, and not the other way around.

Q: If you had to do it all over, would you pursue a career in dentistry?

A: Yes. I wouldn’t have said Yes in 2017, but I have since changed my mind. Told you I was a Gemini!

A: Dentistry gives me autonomy over my work. I have full control of how much I work and for whom and how. Some people have to work 9-5, 5 days a week in order to have a job. I don’t. I also have the freedom to own my own dental office or work for one. I have the ability to work around the world. I can choose which community I serve, and can refer people out if I feel they and I are not a good match. I meet all sorts of fun people and have watched children grow into teenagers since I have been at the same office since 2010.

I have found that while some people on my path are motivated by wealth or money, I am not. I thought I was, but I realize that I am most motivated by freedom. Wealth and money might help get me there, but that’s not what I care about. During the pandemic, I quit a job that made a lot of money and honestly carried me and my husband while he was out of a job for ten months. I worked four days a week and made as much money as when we both worked. But I did not have freedom over how I did my work. I couldn’t decide the days I wanted to work. And I was very unhappy. So I left.

I think I answered differently in a podcast interview back in 2017. That was before I realized the flexibility I had with this job. That was before I realized I could call my own shots. That was before I started thinking positively; before I viewed dentistry as a power instead of a crutch.

Q: What advice would you give other health professionals/ health profession students on handling debt and student loans?

A: Tune out all the noise. Then look deep inside your very heart and ask all the hard questions. And hear all the terrible answers. March to the beat of your own drum. Not everyone will pay it back aggressively because it doesn’t fit everyone’s lifestyle. But don’t be afraid of the choice that you know is right for you. Where there’s a will, there’s a way – actually, a million ways!

You’ve got to center your plan around your goals, your personality, your lifestyle, and your comfort level. Don’t ignore the emotions, but also, consult the numbers. Understand your options and be a continual learner. Study ways to earn money and make money. Pivot when you have to and don’t box yourself into one way. Lastly, consult professionals, or friends like Patrice and me!